Runways

[FluffyFreak]

All that tailsitters would need is a different definition of some form, then they could orient themselves different on landing pads.
It'd be a bit of work, probably take between a couple of weeks and a month or two to get it done.
We'd need example models and there'd probably be a bit of back and forth with whoever was doing the modelling.
The thing really stopping that is the lack of motivation.

We don't have any tailsitter models or demand, aside from yourself Neural ;) The universes physics/gameplay don't really demand it and most people see to find the aeroplane belly-sitter style more natural.

Runways, we'd need an atmospheric flight model, that's the bulk of the work - I wouldn't like to guess at how much work it'd be or time it'd take.
What would be very helpful here is people actually finding resources, then extracting the flight model from it - the maths and physics - and trying to work through integrating it with the Newtonian flight model.
So what would it mean to the player to have 10% atmosphere / 90% Newtonian influence? How about 50/50? or 90/10?
How would the ship handle/control?
Would all ships use the atmospheric model?
Would all ships ever fully use it or would some still use the dominant force of their main engines?

Runways add other complications, the collision system would need an upgrade to handle collisions that aren't treated as an impact (crash) or a docking which are the only two options right now.
There'd have to be traffic control.

You guys can divide up this work and design, or at least discuss, these ideas so that it sparks off some (poor/unfortunate/mad) coders inspiration to code it up for you :)
If we have to sit down and work it all out from scratch then that's a LOT bigger task than coming on here one day and finding even just 10% of the design already done.

[bszlrd]

I might want to add to that demand :) if that enhances motivation a bit :D .
I'm doodling about for a bulkship with containers, and I'd like to make small tugs which haul containers back and forth for it. Tailsitter configuration would be quite sensible for that kind of ship.
Like this little doodle:


Apart from that, it might be useful to add a toggle-able tail-sitting ability to other ships as well, when they are overloaded for the gravity of the planet they are attempting to land on. (If we decide to use a lower thrust rebalance that is.)

I can do the modeling and the associated ping-ponging, but it might be a bit slow, university and work got me right now. But I can cook up a simple untextured placeholder craft for this thing quick.

[Tichy]

Maybe, from the player point of view, it's not completely necessary a full phisical atmospheric model. He just expect that a ship with wings have a vertical lift that's proportional to the forward speed and the atmosphere density. Maybe you could also assign a value to each ship that defines how much lift it have (very little for the tiny winglets of the Kanara. much more for Wave and Deneb. none for Natrix and his brothers). So, when you thust forward, you'll also have a vertical lift. When you roll left, you'll also turn left. Just what you expect from a plane. All space-bricks will be unaffected.
I don't know how they work, but I guess that, maybe, the autopilot and set speed mode should be aware of this.

It would be a trick, not an honest phisical implementation, but it would give to the player the behaviour he expects from a winged vehicle. (And if he didn't read this thread, he could even think that there's really an atmospheric model :D)

[baobobafet]

Tichy - Agreed it doesn't need to be perfect

I think a very primitive model based on wing area = % lift.
The percent lift would need to be mediated by the angle of the ship relative to its vector.
so a ship at positive incline (to it's vector)would gain more lift- a ship at negative incline would lose lift (AKA; gain lift in the opposite direction.) Negative lift should ideally be downplayed slightly, since wings are optimized for upwards lift.
The last multiplying factor is existing speed.

Not sure if barometric pressure and friction are really that necessary to incorporate into the equation since they already,
AFAIK, affect the top end of your speed depending on alt and atmos pressure.

Not minimizing the implementation of this - it's probably the simplest approach to give reasonably realistic results.

Other questions would be what would be the maximum wing size available in game.
Envision huge Mars gliders (due to thin atmosphere) landing on runways to deliver cargo.

Runways on terrain are great if all the problems can be solved - alternatively runways built on trusses elevated slightly
above the surrounding terrain could be another solution.

[baobobafet]

To create more fidelity to such a flight model:

After baseline lift calculations are made for each ship with either lifting body characteristics or wings.
There should also be a penalty (or reduction of lift efficiency) for any extra weight added to such ships.

This would probably need to be a dynamic calculation, since ships will lose fuel mass and sometimes drop cargo or change equipment en-route to any destination.