Improving the experience for new and expert players

[Tichy]

I have some proposals that IMHO, will improve the enjoyment of the game by new and expert players.
The basic idea is that the game should let the player learn its mechanics gradually and be rewarded by his progresses, but this doesn't happen if the game does all the difficult things for him.

I think that, for a start, we need to modify, at least, the autopilot and the time compressor.

1. The autopilot must only bring you to the vicinity of a planet or an orbiting station.

For every kind of players, having an autopilot that can land and dock your ship is a bad tempation that could turn a beautyful space simulator into a boring point-and-click trading simulation. "Select your job - click - Launch - click - select your autopilot destination - click - wait - profit"
The player should, at least, do the slow speed maneuvers. This will also be a training for more complex situations, with moving targets: fighting and, when and if it will be possible, docking to big moving ships with all the escort ships around.

From the point of view of plausibility, I understand that it may seem absurd that in the distant future, a ship can't automatically land or put itslef in orbit, but from the point of view of gameplay I believe that these possibilites should be limited.

1.1. The game should start on an orbiting station

A unexperienced player have to learn how to manouver and how to fly, but he must have the opportunity to learn gradually, so the experience could be rewarding and not frustrating.
If it's difficult to land on a planet (and for a new player, it is), then the game should start on an orbiting station, so the player could choose to move its first steps by trading between orbiting starions. When he feels enough confident, he could start to try to land: first on small asteroids and moons with very little gravity, like Phobos, then on bigger plantes (doing so, he will learn to read the informations about the planets before deciding to land on them... but with an almighty autopilot, who needs to read all those things?).
To stimulate the learning, we could choose to have more profitable contracts and better prices on planets, and anyway, I think that the view of the planet that comes closer and closer, and the land nearer with all the details, and the change of colours of the atmosphere is another rewarding experience. That's why, in my opinion, it's abolutely ok that the player can't go everywhere from start: he will start in a safe and easy to manage situation, then, as soon as he learns, he will be able to go in other kinds of places, and when he will be able to do so, he will feel rewarded. ...But whith an autopilot that does everyting, the temptation to never take away the little wheels from your bike is too strong. In that way, you don't feel rewarded, because you always had the possibility to land without any effort, simply clicking on a ground base and telling the autopilot to go there.

Option 1. Limit the autopilot to bring you only near "space objects"

Option 2. Split the autopilot in two separate equipments: one cheap autopilot that does only "Fly to vicinity of <planet or orbiting base> (not ground bases)" and an expensive one that does all the tasks.

Option 3: There's no Auto-landing/docking, but you can hire someone that does this maneuvers for you. In that way, you can't have it until you buy a ship that can host more than a single pilot, and you have to alredy be on good business to pay the crew. The new player, with his single pilot small crappy ship is forced to learn how to fly until he had made enough progresses to change ship and hire someone.

Option 4 : No auto-docking. Auto-lading is not a ship equipment, but a feaure of some ground stations.
The probability that a station have that feature could be linked to the distance from the Sol System (nearer=more probable) or the capital system of every faction. Inversely, the possibility of profitable tradings would be major on distant systems.
In that way, the player would start in an "easy" environmnet, where he will be forced only to learn to go near a starport (even ground bases, without autopilot: he must at least be able to dive into atmosphere and fly near the base) withour dying, but when he wants to go further and explore, make more money, do more interesting missions, he will be forced to learn.

2. Add more limits to the time compressor.

Something like: no more than 4 when there are objects < 20AU, no more than 3 when < 0.1 AU (or some other rational default). The gameplay will be slower, but it hopefully will be less easier to loose control of the ship... and, anyway, you can always override it.

I propose this, because I find the autopilot useful when I need to cover big distances mainly because i find quite frustraing to calculate, or guess when starting to decelerate, and then decelerate while having to adjust the time compression (in these occasions I have the feeling that I'm fighting with the game interface instead of doing a space travel), so I need an equipment that brings me near where I want to go, or some modifications to the interface that lets me pilot more easily over long distances.


For this two things I tried personally to limit the use in the way I described, and I can tell that the game felt much better and much much more immersive.


3. Instead of equipments that does the difficult things for you, having an interface that gives you the informations you need to do the difficult thing while knowing what you are doing.

For long distance trips:
1. Show the distance to arrive to a complete stop near your target: http://pioneerspacesim.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23
2. Improve the orbit view with more informations and the possibility to maneuver the ship from there (like KSP or this mockup). http://pioneerspacesim.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24

For docking and landing:
Have your hud displaying something like an holographic tunnel to help you allign to the entrance of the docking port if it's an orbiting station, and a tunnel that suggest you a recommended path to follow for landing if it's a gound station. It could even show the recommended speed at proper distances.

4. Start with a ship that can't jump
Your starting system is your home. Before leaving it, you have ho know it, to have to visit it extensely. There should be enough to play in every single system, so that when you'll feel the need to jump, it will be because you really have done almost everything and are needing something more.
A jump must be a thrilling experience, because you are going to an unknow place. You don't know what you'll find.

Having the possibility to jump everywhere from the start, kills this kind of experience. You start jumping here and there, autopiloting everywhere, and all will soon appear too similar and boring. Why? Not because it's similar and boring, but because you aren't giving enough attention to the details: you are moving too fast and watching too shallowly.
A star system is an enormous place, you can't jump from star to star just like you are watching a catalog of planets.

[NeuralKernel]

I like it, just a few questions and ideas of my own to add.

"1. The autopilot must only bring you to the vicinity of a planet or an orbiting station."
I both agree and disagree here, maybe a separate Auto-Lander component? It is currently where most glitches happen to me... and while I've looked at the code to see if I could help the math is WAY beyond me... so I'd be tempted to remove auto-landing as a temporary bugfix, but not remove it completely. Auto-landing, auto-docking... it's all already automatic today :)

"2. Add more limits to the time compressor."
This I agree completely with! Actually, even better would be the ability to set use defined flags... either distance, time, velocity, atmo contact... the ability to set maximum compression for various gameplay states would be VERY nice... even greater levels of time compression should be available if possible for long range flights, and with use defined flags could be managed relatively easily.

3 is in the pipeline, as it were. There is anotehr thread here about the HUD that has lots of related discussion.

"4. Start with a ship that can't jump"
Hell yes!!! FTL in games is cheap, proper Newtonian celestial mechanics aer hard to come by, show off a bit! :D

[Tichy]

I like it, just a few questions and ideas of my own to add.

"1. The autopilot must only bring you to the vicinity of a planet or an orbiting station."
I both agree and disagree here, maybe a separate Auto-Lander component? It is currently where most glitches happen to me... and while I've looked at the code to see if I could help the math is WAY beyond me... so I'd be tempted to remove auto-landing as a temporary bugfix, but not remove it completely. Auto-landing, auto-docking... it's all already automatic today :)

So, Option 2: Let the player that buys the more expensive Auto-lander/docker decide if he wants to turn the game into a point-and-click trading simulation.
I was more for option 1, but I understand that not everyone would accept to limit the autopilot this much.

I just though about another option.
Option 3: There's no Auto-landing/docking, but you can hire someone that does this maneuvers for you. In that way, you can't have it until you buy a ship that can host more than a single pilot, and you have to alredy be on good business to pay the crew. The new player, with his single pilot small crappy ship is forced to learn how to fly until he had made enough progresses to change ship and hire someone.

Anothet bad thing about the autopilot is that it is very fast: he can bring you everywere in less game time than any player could do. This is a strong temptation for those who wants to complete their deliveries in time... But the price to pay (beside fuel) is that the player will not think before accepting a contract. He won't check the orbital view to see if his destination is near or far. He will just click on the destination and - zaap - the autopilot "teleports" him there. And the game will be less fun.

"2. Add more limits to the time compressor."
This I agree completely with! Actually, even better would be the ability to set use defined flags... either distance, time, velocity, atmo contact... the ability to set maximum compression for various gameplay states would be VERY nice... even greater levels of time compression should be available if possible for long range flights, and with use defined flags could be managed relatively easily.

That's a nice idea for a smarter time compressor. Let the user define the limits. Probably we should start with a sane cautious default setting, and when the player feels more confident with its abilitites, he could change this limits to let him be faster (in real life time).

[robn]

1. The autopilot must only bring you to the vicinity of a planet or an orbiting station.

For every kind of players, having an autopilot that can land and dock your ship is a bad tempation that could turn a beautyful space simulator into a boring point-and-click trading simulation. "Select your job - click - Launch - click - select your autopilot destination - click - wait - profit"

Sure, but do remember that there are always going to be players that want to play for the trade and politics game and don't care too much about the flight aspects.

In #374 Brianetta describes a "hardcore mode" which is also interesting. Basically no help at all, just learn to fly yourself.

We can probably accomodate all types by having various modes/levels/configurations of autopilot, obtainable by whatever means.

1.1. The game should start on an orbiting station

I've heard requests for this a lot lately. Its a trivial thing to achieve, and a good thing (even for development - Lave start made it really fast to test stuff). It just needs someone to submit a patch to add a new start point.

Option 1. Limit the autopilot to bring you only near "space objects"

An autopilot can fly you to any point, so long as you have a good way to target that point. Targeting a planet or other huge body is easy (visible from distance, predictable orbits, etc). Targeting a station is slightly tougher (still predictable orbit, but you still have to know it was there, maps etc). Targeting a moving ship? Who knows.

Option 2. Split the autopilot in two separate equipments: one cheap autopilot that does only "Fly to vicinity of <planet or orbiting base> (not ground bases)" and an expensive one that does all the tasks.

Or N modules, or whatever. The details are not particularly important.

Option 3: There's no Auto-landing/docking, but you can hire someone that does this maneuvers for you. In that way, you can't have it until you buy a ship that can host more than a single pilot, and you have to alredy be on good business to pay the crew. The new player, with his single pilot small crappy ship is forced to learn how to fly until he had made enough progresses to change ship and hire someone.

It does make some sense, but it does lead to a rather steep learning curve. Maybe the easy/tutorial start could have basic autopilot and other support for the new player, but with some setback - only limited mission/trade options (backwater planet?), or some big debt/setback (bank loan to buy your first ship, or you joined some guild/corporation/military that invest in your initial training in return for you being beholden to them for the first X years).

2. Add more limits to the time compressor.

Arbitrary limits are pretty unpopular. Its half the reason we have the overrides - people complained a lot. I'd prefer to get rid of the overrides entirely, but make the timeaccel lockouts make more sense. I don't know how possible that is.

3. Instead of equipments that does the difficult things for you, having an interface that gives you the informations you need to do the difficult thing while knowing what you are doing.

I don't disagree necessarily but again, the balance has to be right. I don't want to be micromanaging every tiny thing; that's not a fun game for me. But it is for some people.

Oh, and I really don't want to be micromanaging anything once I have a large crew. I just want to say "go that way, wake me if something happens".

4. Start with a ship that can't jump

As you say, there needs to be plenty to in-system to make this worthwhile.

[robn]

even greater levels of time compression should be available

Just remember that the current max of 10000x is pretty much as high as it can go. The flight AI can't work reliably higher than that (it has a fun enough time as it is at 10000x).

[Tichy]

Sure, but do remember that there are always going to be players that want to play for the trade and politics game and don't care too much about the flight aspects.

In #374 Brianetta describes a "hardcore mode" which is also interesting. Basically no help at all, just learn to fly yourself.

We can probably accomodate all types by having various modes/levels/configurations of autopilot, obtainable by whatever means.

I didn't thought it could be a desire for some players, to avoid the flight simulation part. I assumed that every player (or the most players) wanted to fly, and thus, the temptation of a too powerful autopilot could have been a bad thing.

1.1. The game should start on an orbiting station

I've heard requests for this a lot lately. Its a trivial thing to achieve, and a good thing (even for development - Lave start made it really fast to test stuff). It just needs someone to submit a patch to add a new start point.

So, it would be enough to agree on what system, ship and equipment to use?

Option 3: There's no Auto-landing/docking, but you can hire someone that does this maneuvers for you. In that way, you can't have it until you buy a ship that can host more than a single pilot, and you have to alredy be on good business to pay the crew. The new player, with his single pilot small crappy ship is forced to learn how to fly until he had made enough progresses to change ship and hire someone.

It does make some sense, but it does lead to a rather steep learning curve. Maybe the easy/tutorial start could have basic autopilot and other support for the new player, but with some setback - only limited mission/trade options (backwater planet?), or some big debt/setback (bank loan to buy your first ship, or you joined some guild/corporation/military that invest in your initial training in return for you being beholden to them for the first X years).

I think that could be the right way. I'd prefer to be not too much player-centric and without a general "difficulty level" that limits all the game. The player must not be a "special case", but just like every other starters and his difficulties would be caused by his starting situation.

My idea for an easy but limited start is to let the player start on an orbiting station with a crappy ship (no autopilot, no atmospheric shield). In that way he would be forced to start with the "easy" things: trade between orbiting stations, practice with maneuvers far from gravity wells and atmospheres.
Before being able to land he must earn enough mone to buy the atmo-shield... and then he would be forced to learn how to approach a planet. And then, how to land.
Of course: he will die a lot of times. :)

Another compromise could be this (Option 4! :D ): the auto-lading pilot is not a ship equipment, but a feaure of some starports.
The probability that a starport have that feature could be linked to the distance from the Sol System or the capital system of every faction and the possibility of profitable tradings would be more on distant systems.
In that way, the player would start in an "easy" environmnet, where he will be forced only to learn to go near a starport withour dying, but when he wants to go further and explore, make more money, do more interesting missions, he will be forced to learn.
Even in this case, I'll keep the idea to start on an orbiting station without atmo-shields.

Arbitrary limits are pretty unpopular. Its half the reason we have the overrides - people complained a lot. I'd prefer to get rid of the overrides entirely, but make the timeaccel lockouts make more sense. I don't know how possible that is.

One option could be what NeuralKernel suggested: let the user choose the timeaccel limits. But, anyway, we need a good default setting. How is it calibrated, now? My impression is that now it's very permissive. (And that sometimes, leads to problems, expecially with npc's ships)
In my experience, I found that the game is much more enjoyable and immersive when played "slowly", without exaggerating with the acceleration. The maximum acceleretion, should be used only on very big systems with multiple stars, when you have to cover more that 20AU to reach deatination. In a system like Sol, it should never be used. Also because it spoils the feeleing of the big distanced and long time travels.

3. Instead of equipments that does the difficult things for you, having an interface that gives you the informations you need to do the difficult thing while knowing what you are doing.

I don't disagree necessarily but again, the balance has to be right. I don't want to be micromanaging every tiny thing; that's not a fun game for me. But it is for some people.

Oh, and I really don't want to be micromanaging anything once I have a large crew. I just want to say "go that way, wake me if something happens".

I agree. So I think that this could be split in two: a good informative interface that will be useful for the "power-player", but won't damage who wants to play in a more "relaxed" way, and to find a good balance between "automatic" and "do-it-yourself".

4. Start with a ship that can't jump

As you say, there needs to be plenty to in-system to make this worthwhile.

Of course. :)
We need to populate it and build situations and missions.

A compromise could be starting with a ship that can jump, but without the jump drive. It will cost less to buy the engine, than to buy a new ship. The player will not be able to jump from the beginning, but it will be able to do it earlier than in my previous idea.
Also if you add it to the "start on a space station without atmo-shiled" idea, you'll have that, as soon as he earned some money, the player would have to choose between buying an atmo-shield, or buy a jump drive.

[Tichy]

I just read #374, and I must say that I almost completerly agree with Brianetta. The only difference is that I think this would make it an easier (not harder) start for a beginner, because with being so limited, he will have less things to worry about and, even if the learning curve is steep, he will be forced to learn gradually. Being unable to do everything from the start could be a good thing because the player will not feel overwhelmed by too many possibilities and things to be learned at the same time. I think this would be a good thing for new players.

[FluffyFreak]

We obviously want for different things :) I like the autopilot to take away the tedium of a lot of the flights. It's something that I do frequently and most of the time I simply want to get to my destination because I'm trading or travelling.

It's also something I can't imagine not being available and would be incongruous if it was missing.

As for removing the hyperdrive for beginners, I don't like it but I can see why you'd suggest it. I'd worry that we'd be limiting the player right at the point when you want them to be going off exploring and doing the missions that would take them away from the safe harbour of the start point.

[Tichy]

I agree that the autopilot is convenient for covering big distances. So, what about splitting it in various equipments, or move autolanding/docking to a different equipment, or the crew, or a feature of some starports? (See options 2,3,4). Option 4 is the one I like most, at the moment, because it would allow a better control of the balance between difficulties and rewarding (more spaceports with autoland/dock near the starting system, or other factions capital systems, but better/more rewarding affairs far from the staring system... and more dangers... and more things to see...). Think about a galaxy like in Firefly, with rich systems in the center and far systems of colonies with few resources... and lots of pirates, smugglers and interesting things :D

About the hyperdrive, just make a basic cheap version that the new user could buy after a reasonable number of in-system jobs. :)

[jpab]

We now have an orbital start point (again). Barnard's Star. You have just been released your prison, and are free to go about your new life.

See: Issue 2402: Adding Barnard as new start.