Pioneer dev forum

1. As "Orbiter" player i found its orbital gauges pretty useful l and miss them in Pioneer.
When i trying to navigate in planetary gravity field, the current speed vector marker just not enough.
I don`t get will I falling on the planet or stay in orbit looking only on speed vector.

Is it in nearest plans to make "normal"orbital maneuvering instruments?


2. More general - my first try on Pioneer was more then year ago and it`s AI flight model that stoped me from continue.
I just don`t get how they flying and it`s looks like too "cheatering".
If I remember correct, I tested it by taking ship with high thrust to weight ratio and still can`t catch up with the some big slow barge.

It looks like Player switch between gravity fields of bodies momentary, based on uncertain for me triggers (distance to closest I suppose).
Hostile AI looks like teleported/spawn to player jump out point. AI FM and logic just mistical for me.

Can somebody specify FM both player and AI more specifily than "newtonian"?

1. dvolk has been adding more instrumentation lately but no-one has actually stated their intention to add anything else at the moment.

2. What is "FM"? You say: "AI FM and logic just mistical for me." but I don't know the abbreviation.

Both players and AI obey the games Newtonian physics. So if you spawn an AI ship next to the players with the same ship, equipment, cargo and fuel then try to accelerate with them you will keep pace exactly.
However this also means that if they start to accelerate before you then they will always get ahead of you.

I suspect that other games cheat because otherwise it's very very difficult to actually intercept another ship using orbital mechanics unless it either going very slowly without accelerating/decelerating, or you have a much lighter ship with much more powerful engines.

FM - Flight Model
aviasim abbreviation

Well the flight model is Newtonian but that just means that we don't have an atmospheric flight model, so no lift, drag or other factors taken into account when travelling within an atmosphere.
Otherwise it's simple you accelerate in one direction and you will keep going forever in that direction until you either hit something or decelerate by thrusting in the opposite direction.

I think we do limit the distance at which we apply gravity from planets but I cannot remember what the controlling factor is.

FluffyFreak wrote:Well the flight model is Newtonian but that just means that we don't have an atmospheric flight model, so no lift, drag or other factors taken into account when travelling within an atmosphere.

That's not entirely true. We do have atmospheric drag, it's just very simple uniform drag, not affected by the shape or orientation of your vehicle.

John B

What about AI? Does it uses "rail" model when it choose between predefined or calculated trajectories and then driven on them artificially, or it obeying same physical laws?
Does mass of player and AI continuously recalculating in flight, or U using some constant numbers predefined before flight?

About atmospheric flight: I don`t see much problem in logically describe drag, heating and even lift formulas depending on ship orientation, vector, and atmospheric density.
Anyway, U calculating drag "on the fly" so there is no much difference. It could be really coarse, but better than nothing.
The most problem here i see is the AI interaction with such complexity.

BTW. Yesterday i landed on gas giant surface... :) Next target is star :D. Looks like there is a lot work to do.

P.S. Also, yesterday i found some orbital instruments in F2 submenu, it is something at least.

It's all physics, there's no "rails" to follow. It can recalculate during the flight to account for the weight of fuel consumed or if you jettison cargo but it takes some of that into account when it calculates your initial acceleration.
Typically it accelerates using ~45% fuel, coasts without thrust for most of the distance, then flips the ship around to decelerate.
It keeps some of the fuel in reserve so that you have some spare for docking and other stuff once you've arrived.

There's a lot of issues on our list, landing on stars and gas giants is there.

slicem wrote:If I remember correct, I tested it by taking ship with high thrust to weight ratio and still can`t catch up with the some big slow barge.

You might have entered something along the lines of forced orbit around your target.

Picture the situation where you have significant lateral velocity relative to the target and want to come closer - you aim your nose at the target and keep firing the thrusters, but at some point you can't come any closer. What is actually happening is you being in orbit around target (which you are familiar with, being Orbiter player), except instead of gravity you have the force of your own thrust keeping you circling the target (as you are adjusting your orientation to keep the target in the crosshairs).

Another explanation is pretty much empty big slow barge and your vessel full.

It looks like Player switch between gravity fields of bodies momentary, based on uncertain for me triggers (distance to closest I suppose).

Yes, although I don't see any reason not to switch to sum of all gravity vectors in the system (still treating bodies as point masses) instead of switching between them. It might have been smart thing to do back then, in Frontier on 286 or Amiga, but not today.

Overall Pioneer started out as fan remake of Frontier: Elite II, and unfortunately still inherits many of the original's unfortunate limitations.