Wish to work on System generation, and more...

[FluffyFreak]

Hey everyone, less aggro' over a word please.
I get that tone comes across poorly online so no arguing or we all risk being misunderstood :)

DraQ, take a look at the current roadmap and trim it down for things that seem defunct, you can just discuss it in this thread, add the stuff that you would like to do.
It's all just ideas until people volunteer to do something - which is the sticking point - but you are correct that if we don't discuss some of the bigger / odder ideas then when they come to the PR stage they might get rejected which can and has put people off in the past.

Bare in mind that the reason it doesn't really work as a "proscriptive" format, like a job, where people are assigned work is that if I get lumbered with something that I think sucks then... I just don't do it since this is fun for me, tinkering and learning.

However it might make more sense as a "descriptive" document detailing what people would like to do themselves. That way we can wonder about what impaktor / laarmen / noz will unleash on us all next :)

Andy

[impaktor]

if we don't discuss some of the bigger / odder ideas then when they come to the PR stage they might get rejected

Yes, if ever in doubt that the things you are working on might be rejected, one should probably discuss it here first, or when seeking advice for how to implement.

I've edited the road map, and by the log history I (apparently) started doing this almost 2 years ago. Over this time I've removed things that now are done (ships in Json, equipment in Lua, etc), and added links to discussions on cargo vs. volume, and "loose/dangling" dev-wiki-articles on what we want Crew and other things to do, to which nothing on the wiki linked. I've also added other things that frequently come up.

So the Roadmap has seen updates and maintenence, it's just that we don't go in there to see "what we should do next", but rather we do what ever we feel the most like doing, as long as it fits with what we want pioneer to be. So indirectly, the Roadmap does mirror our view on pioneer.

[clausimu]

I agree to both sides (sounds lame, I know). But there is something to be said for both ideas.

(a) I have limited time for fun. Contributing to Pioneer eats out of this fun time. So contributing to Pioneer better be fun (most of the time). I have more fun working on things that I think are cool, rather than assigned jobs that don't get me on fire.
(b) As a newcomer to the Pioneer world I have some uncertainty as to what the dev-team is actually looking for or would find useful. I have worked around that by playing a lot and finding weak spots in the game, reading forum posts, bug reports, wiki and merge requests. A roadmap or even simple list with (realistic) todo or goal items would be helpful for newbies like me - plus really exciting.

BUT (!!!) a list like that needs someone willing to maintain it. I maintained a data/changes collection web site for a strategy game (Planets4) years ago and know that this takes time. As much as I would like a list of agreed on ideas, I am not willing to be the one in charge of it right now. But since it is dear to your heart, DraQ, would you do it? Cream rises to the top - if you setup a wiki page, pull in ideas and what people are working on or plan to work on and maintain it well, I'm sure most devs would warm up to the idea :). It might take a bit longer for core devs, whose working (!) system you are trying to disturb. But if it is good and helpful all around it will survive.

[DraQ]

Hey everyone, less aggro' over a word please.
I get that tone comes across poorly online so no arguing or we all risk being misunderstood :)

Thank you. :)

DraQ, take a look at the current roadmap and trim it down for things that seem defunct, you can just discuss it in this thread, add the stuff that you would like to do.
It's all just ideas until people volunteer to do something - which is the sticking point - but you are correct that if we don't discuss some of the bigger / odder ideas then when they come to the PR stage they might get rejected which can and has put people off in the past.

Bare in mind that the reason it doesn't really work as a "proscriptive" format, like a job, where people are assigned work is that if I get lumbered with something that I think sucks then... I just don't do it since this is fun for me, tinkering and learning.

However it might make more sense as a "descriptive" document detailing what people would like to do themselves. That way we can wonder about what impaktor / laarmen / noz will unleash on us all next :)

Actually, that's exactly what I had in mind - somewhere to pool the ideas that have been approved, that play well together with each other and with what is already in place, and that have been declared vital or at least very desirable in the long run (and, correspondingly, worldbuilding information and information about features that have been determined to be incompatible with Pioneer - and why).

This way most of the major stuff discussed, would eventually make its way either to the roadmap or to the exclusion list.

I agree to both sides (sounds lame, I know). But there is something to be said for both ideas.

(a) I have limited time for fun. Contributing to Pioneer eats out of this fun time. So contributing to Pioneer better be fun (most of the time). I have more fun working on things that I think are cool, rather than assigned jobs that don't get me on fire.
(b) As a newcomer to the Pioneer world I have some uncertainty as to what the dev-team is actually looking for or would find useful. I have worked around that by playing a lot and finding weak spots in the game, reading forum posts, bug reports, wiki and merge requests. A roadmap or even simple list with (realistic) todo or goal items would be helpful for newbies like me - plus really exciting.

That's actually a major part of my reasoning here:
Pooling ideas that are to be implemented should both help newcomers determine the overall shape of what Pioneer is meant to be (but also help the core crew maintain consistent vision) and give them many potential options to do something interesting for Pioneer - it's not that there is shortage of issues on githubs or that they wouldn't be able to roll out some idea of their own if they don't feel like doing any of the things listed.

BUT (!!!) a list like that needs someone willing to maintain it. I maintained a data/changes collection web site for a strategy game (Planets4) years ago and know that this takes time. As much as I would like a list of agreed on ideas, I am not willing to be the one in charge of it right now. But since it is dear to your heart, DraQ, would you do it? Cream rises to the top - if you setup a wiki page, pull in ideas and what people are working on or plan to work on and maintain it well, I'm sure most devs would warm up to the idea :). It might take a bit longer for core devs, whose working (!) system you are trying to disturb. But if it is good and helpful all around it will survive.

I was thinking of a system where the update would immediately follow a conclusive discussion and be performed by one of the participants - is that too naive? ;)