I figure it would take a lot of work in the engine itself to allow multiple types of reaction mass, but in the meantime would it be possible to switch to using hydrogen as reaction mass? I can skim a Gas Giant and fill the hold with hydrogen in no time, and the Gas Giants are fairly plentiful and easy to find. Scavenging for water in the wild means tracking down an asteroid and blasting away at it forever. Also, any ship with the room for all the various pieces of equipment for both mining and scooping needs quite a bit of water to replenish the reaction mass so it takes forever and quickly loses any sense of fun.
Hydrogen for default reaction mass? Water or something even denser for high thrust low isp burns, AKA afterburner?
Reaction Mass
Re: Reaction Mass
Water might not directly be the reaction mass. But I take your point. Lets call it fuel :)
It wouldn't be a lot of work to allow multiple fuel types, but I don't think we want that. It is kind of interesting to have two different types of fuel for your two different engines, so you have to figure out how to best manage your resources. Balancing cargo/equipment space with fuel use might need to improve here.
The real problem is that there aren't enough places to get water in the wild. Adding more places to get water such as asteroids, floating ice chunks, gas giant rings, dropping a bucket in the ocean of some water-based world or synthesizing it from elements gathered from the atmosphere are a few possibilities. We should add those instead.
It wouldn't be a lot of work to allow multiple fuel types, but I don't think we want that. It is kind of interesting to have two different types of fuel for your two different engines, so you have to figure out how to best manage your resources. Balancing cargo/equipment space with fuel use might need to improve here.
The real problem is that there aren't enough places to get water in the wild. Adding more places to get water such as asteroids, floating ice chunks, gas giant rings, dropping a bucket in the ocean of some water-based world or synthesizing it from elements gathered from the atmosphere are a few possibilities. We should add those instead.
Re: Reaction Mass
If you have hydrogen for everything you'd only need scooping gas giants to refuel.
The way it works at the moment, it's harder to do interplanetary travels than interstellar travels (if you run out of fuel) since sccoping gas giants is simpler and needs less equipment.
But you can easily mod this in InfoView.lua if you wanted.
The way it works at the moment, it's harder to do interplanetary travels than interstellar travels (if you run out of fuel) since sccoping gas giants is simpler and needs less equipment.
But you can easily mod this in InfoView.lua if you wanted.
Re: Reaction Mass
I know you'd only need to scoop gas giants. But then there's significantly less challenge.
Of course its really a design and balance issue more than anything, and we don't really have that figured out yet. But I think I really would like to have the separate.
Of course its really a design and balance issue more than anything, and we don't really have that figured out yet. But I think I really would like to have the separate.
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NeuralKernel
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Re: Reaction Mass
OK, how do I switch it for myself? I can't find "InfoView.lua" anywhere. Would I have to recompile the game to change it?
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FluffyFreak
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Re: Reaction Mass
Slightly off-topic; does anyone think it'd be useful to have automatic in-flight refueling in the game?
Obviously the autopilot would have to take it into account but it'd mean that you could carry a lot more fuel (be it hydrogen or water etc) and then you would be able to accelerate/decelerate for a lot longer.
Obviously the autopilot would have to take it into account but it'd mean that you could carry a lot more fuel (be it hydrogen or water etc) and then you would be able to accelerate/decelerate for a lot longer.
Re: Reaction Mass
I think it could be useful, but there should be a flag (maybe next to the refuel button) to enable it. I don't want that my ship starts burning something that I wanted to sell. :)FluffyFreak wrote:Slightly off-topic; does anyone think it'd be useful to have automatic in-flight refueling in the game?
Obviously the autopilot would have to take it into account but it'd mean that you could carry a lot more fuel (be it hydrogen or water etc) and then you would be able to accelerate/decelerate for a lot longer.
Re: Reaction Mass
We talked about it back when fuel was implemented. From memory the feeling was that we shouldn't take away everything interaction otherwise there's not much point even having it.
That said, its a bit micromanagementey. And very easy to script. So I wouldn't have a problem with an auto-refueller piece of equipment (presumably some robot in the cargo hold shoving fuel in the tank as necessary).
I don't think the autopilot should know about extra fuel you have on board. That doesn't make much sense to me.
That said, its a bit micromanagementey. And very easy to script. So I wouldn't have a problem with an auto-refueller piece of equipment (presumably some robot in the cargo hold shoving fuel in the tank as necessary).
I don't think the autopilot should know about extra fuel you have on board. That doesn't make much sense to me.
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FluffyFreak
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Re: Reaction Mass
Weird, it's the only reason I can think of for having it! :Drobn wrote:I don't think the autopilot should know about extra fuel you have on board. That doesn't make much sense to me.
I think of it like this: I've filled the tank with propellant, loaded up with extra propellant, switched on the auto-fueling thingey and set off on a trip.
Do I expect it to use the fuel I've got in executing that trip or not?
I'd say yes because otherwise it's like I haven't got an auto-refueling machine. I may as well just manually top up whenever it runs out and starts coasting.
Whereas if it's taken into account by the autopilot then it can just accelerate and decelerate like it's got a larger fuel tank.
If I only want it to use some of the fuel without refilling automatically from the cargo then I just turn it off.
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NeuralKernel
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Re: Reaction Mass
Maybe the autopilot should get nerfed, limited to a kind of "Standard Traffic" setting that's the minimum a ship can operate with in settled space. Something like 1 G up to a maximum of 10 000 kps (just to pull numbers at random, could go lower or higher).
The autopilot has been crashing on me more often lately using new versions and different mods, maybe standardizing things across all ships to represent a sort of interplanetary "Traffic Laws" would be easier than tweaking all the ships individualy. A side effect would be that mission planning and design would get easier as predictions about timing would be easier to make. It would also make it possible to outfly the computer if you want to take the helm and fly manually, either for speed or ReMass efficiency.
In fact, going back to my original point... with a nerfed Autopilot mode using Hydrogen ReMass to take advantage of the gentler thrust and higher Isp for long range cruising makes even more sense.
The autopilot has been crashing on me more often lately using new versions and different mods, maybe standardizing things across all ships to represent a sort of interplanetary "Traffic Laws" would be easier than tweaking all the ships individualy. A side effect would be that mission planning and design would get easier as predictions about timing would be easier to make. It would also make it possible to outfly the computer if you want to take the helm and fly manually, either for speed or ReMass efficiency.
In fact, going back to my original point... with a nerfed Autopilot mode using Hydrogen ReMass to take advantage of the gentler thrust and higher Isp for long range cruising makes even more sense.