Manually setting the frame of reference?
Manually setting the frame of reference?
I think it would be nice to be able to manually set the frame of reference (from any distance). This would allow players to retro-burn more smoothly using cruise control, since cruise control always tries to adjust prograde relative to the frame of reference (the grey marker, while generally you want to be burning 180 degrees off the orange marker.) Using the cruise control to decelerate causes the orange marker to shift off the target over time because cruise will force you to burn opposite of the grey marker--which for most of your flight is going to reference the star or nearby planet vs. the moon you're actually trying to land on. This is also true for cruising on the acceleration burn but the shift is less noticeable because your target is always closer during decel. Being able to manually set the frame of reference would allow you to point right at your target, set cruise mode to 5m/s and then totally kick back, which I think would feel super nice.
Re: Manually setting the frame of reference?
I realized another means of accomplishing this would be with a "toggle thruster" command, i.e. a keybind option to turn thrusters on/remain on after releasing the key (but not course correct like cruise mode). Either method should allow for "set it and forget it" burning which would be really cool, more time sipping on my beverage less time holding down W. Unless there's a current method to do this and I'm totally missing it?
P.S. Thankyou for this amazing game, I just read about/downloaded the February update and am a few hours into a new playthrough with the Xylophis. Honestly I think Pioneer could very well be my favorite game of all time. There's simply no other sandbox space rpg with a truly realistic flight model (yet! looking at Alliance Space Guard...) The fact that this team has stayed so dedicated to a FOSS game over so many years, and the game seems to be getting exponentially better... It makes me happier than any other dev project out there, the fact that this cute space sim I messed around with as a kid is still getting HUGE amounts of work and now is probably the closest thing out there to my dream space game. You folks rock, and so does Pioneer! Thankyou!!!
P.S. Thankyou for this amazing game, I just read about/downloaded the February update and am a few hours into a new playthrough with the Xylophis. Honestly I think Pioneer could very well be my favorite game of all time. There's simply no other sandbox space rpg with a truly realistic flight model (yet! looking at Alliance Space Guard...) The fact that this team has stayed so dedicated to a FOSS game over so many years, and the game seems to be getting exponentially better... It makes me happier than any other dev project out there, the fact that this cute space sim I messed around with as a kid is still getting HUGE amounts of work and now is probably the closest thing out there to my dream space game. You folks rock, and so does Pioneer! Thankyou!!!
Re: Manually setting the frame of reference?
Thank you for your kind words!
The function to set anything as the reference frame is already available. Ctrl+LMB will do exactly that.
You can also set it to ships even, and for that, the Follow Position mode of the flight selector right to the reticule will also work. But that's not available for planets.
But if you want to use it for transfers, then keep an eye on your deltaV, (left bar on the reticule) since you'd be burning almost all the time to adjust the course.
Alternatively you can just lean into that drift of the prograde marker during manual flight. Which would happen anyway as the target goes along its orbit. You just need to eyeball, how much you need to aim off while accelerating and decelerating to keep it on target.
Eventually I would really like to have a closest approach indicator (and orbit display) on the HUD to aid with that, and even made some mockups for it, but my artist's guess is that impelemning that wouldn't be trivial.
Oh, and for deceleration burns, you need to burn towards the retrograde X markers, not the gray circle (that's frame-outwards). Or rather you will mostly burn towards your retrograde, but it is easier to switch to rear camera (NumPad 2). The gray circle will only be useful when you've entered the destination frame. But even then, you'd be better off adjusting your path towards the horizon in most cases to avoid lithobraking.
There's no "anti-target" indicator. Although it might be useful to have.
The function to set anything as the reference frame is already available. Ctrl+LMB will do exactly that.
You can also set it to ships even, and for that, the Follow Position mode of the flight selector right to the reticule will also work. But that's not available for planets.
But if you want to use it for transfers, then keep an eye on your deltaV, (left bar on the reticule) since you'd be burning almost all the time to adjust the course.
Alternatively you can just lean into that drift of the prograde marker during manual flight. Which would happen anyway as the target goes along its orbit. You just need to eyeball, how much you need to aim off while accelerating and decelerating to keep it on target.
Eventually I would really like to have a closest approach indicator (and orbit display) on the HUD to aid with that, and even made some mockups for it, but my artist's guess is that impelemning that wouldn't be trivial.
Oh, and for deceleration burns, you need to burn towards the retrograde X markers, not the gray circle (that's frame-outwards). Or rather you will mostly burn towards your retrograde, but it is easier to switch to rear camera (NumPad 2). The gray circle will only be useful when you've entered the destination frame. But even then, you'd be better off adjusting your path towards the horizon in most cases to avoid lithobraking.
There's no "anti-target" indicator. Although it might be useful to have.
Re: Manually setting the frame of reference?
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I think Pioneer could very well be my favorite game of all time.(There are some bugs in the February release fixed in master, you might want to play that instead)
Re: Manually setting the frame of reference?
Very much appreciate these responses!
"The function to set anything as the reference frame is already available. Ctrl+LMB will do exactly that."
Alright I hopped in right away and tried this, and for me it is not working as expected. Ctrl-LMB seems to set the navigational target + enable "Follow rotation" on the target. It's slightly buggy because it tries to match rotation to far-away targets, then cannot be turned off if out of normal rotation-matching range, for me Ctrl-LMB does NOT change the frame of reference (The body listed in grey on the left side of the HUD). When I mentioned prograde markers I'm referring to the grey and orange diamond markers. Cruise mode tries to shift the grey diamond to wherever your ship is pointed. The only way I have found to change this target is by attaining sufficient proximity to the body.
"But if you want to use it for transfers, then keep an eye on your deltaV, (left bar on the reticule) since you'd be burning almost all the time to adjust the course."
This is the whole issue I am trying to solve here, I think this course correction burn is necessary because cruise mode is always trying to move the grey marker, the result is that you can't point directly at the nav target so you will always be pushing yourself off target while cruising. I want to cruise in order to automate the deceleration burn, when I fly full manual I decel by burning mostly toward the orange X and making minor corrections.
EDIT: I realize orbital motion/the changing vector of the body (and gravity) also contribute to prograde drift, and some manual adjustment/finding equilibrium is necessary. (maybe charting to see exactly where the body will be and avoid inefficiently chasing the marker around).
Boiled down what I'm asking for is the ability to "continuously thrust on the current vector" or basically "hold down W,"
I think the most versatile solution would be a simple "hold thrust" command. Say you are firing Rear, Left, and Bottom thrusters, then you press+release the "hold thrust" key. Now your thruster input is locked and you can release all keys. Used in conjunction with the speed limiter this lets you set up a burn and then go completely hands free. Really nice for folks who like playing at a slower pace or in real time. The "manual frame of reference" fix isn't quite as versatile but it would allow cruising toward your orange prograde marker which is often what I find myself wanting to be doing.
"(There are some bugs in the February release fixed in master, you might want to play that instead)"
That's good to know, I'm already nicely settled into this playthrough however so I will probably just keep going and deal with the bugs! I've never tried compiling my own copy before :P If I were to attempt this fix would my saves likely still be playable?
"The function to set anything as the reference frame is already available. Ctrl+LMB will do exactly that."
Alright I hopped in right away and tried this, and for me it is not working as expected. Ctrl-LMB seems to set the navigational target + enable "Follow rotation" on the target. It's slightly buggy because it tries to match rotation to far-away targets, then cannot be turned off if out of normal rotation-matching range, for me Ctrl-LMB does NOT change the frame of reference (The body listed in grey on the left side of the HUD). When I mentioned prograde markers I'm referring to the grey and orange diamond markers. Cruise mode tries to shift the grey diamond to wherever your ship is pointed. The only way I have found to change this target is by attaining sufficient proximity to the body.
"But if you want to use it for transfers, then keep an eye on your deltaV, (left bar on the reticule) since you'd be burning almost all the time to adjust the course."
This is the whole issue I am trying to solve here, I think this course correction burn is necessary because cruise mode is always trying to move the grey marker, the result is that you can't point directly at the nav target so you will always be pushing yourself off target while cruising. I want to cruise in order to automate the deceleration burn, when I fly full manual I decel by burning mostly toward the orange X and making minor corrections.
EDIT: I realize orbital motion/the changing vector of the body (and gravity) also contribute to prograde drift, and some manual adjustment/finding equilibrium is necessary. (maybe charting to see exactly where the body will be and avoid inefficiently chasing the marker around).
Boiled down what I'm asking for is the ability to "continuously thrust on the current vector" or basically "hold down W,"
I think the most versatile solution would be a simple "hold thrust" command. Say you are firing Rear, Left, and Bottom thrusters, then you press+release the "hold thrust" key. Now your thruster input is locked and you can release all keys. Used in conjunction with the speed limiter this lets you set up a burn and then go completely hands free. Really nice for folks who like playing at a slower pace or in real time. The "manual frame of reference" fix isn't quite as versatile but it would allow cruising toward your orange prograde marker which is often what I find myself wanting to be doing.
"(There are some bugs in the February release fixed in master, you might want to play that instead)"
That's good to know, I'm already nicely settled into this playthrough however so I will probably just keep going and deal with the bugs! I've never tried compiling my own copy before :P If I were to attempt this fix would my saves likely still be playable?
Re: Manually setting the frame of reference?
Most notable fixed bug is saves being corrupted if you have a surface/orbital scanner, I believe.
https://github.com/pioneerspacesim/pion ... ngelog.txt
If you have login on github you can download build artifact from actions tab from various merged pull requests - no compilation requred.
https://github.com/pioneerspacesim/pioneer/actions
Yes, save is compatible (so far). If not, you can hold Ctrl and click "load" (which will actually read: "restore" I believe) and a new game with same ship, reputation, kills, cash, equipment, name, position will be started, but active missions will not be carried over.
https://github.com/pioneerspacesim/pion ... ngelog.txt
If you have login on github you can download build artifact from actions tab from various merged pull requests - no compilation requred.
https://github.com/pioneerspacesim/pioneer/actions
Yes, save is compatible (so far). If not, you can hold Ctrl and click "load" (which will actually read: "restore" I believe) and a new game with same ship, reputation, kills, cash, equipment, name, position will be started, but active missions will not be carried over.
Re: Manually setting the frame of reference?
Awesome, thanks for this info! I'll give it a go as well as report that Ctrl-LMB bug to the issue tracker. Do you have any thoughts on my suggestion of being able to lock the thruster inputs as well as change the frame of reference?impaktor wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 4:38 pm Most notable fixed bug is saves being corrupted if you have a surface/orbital scanner, I believe.
https://github.com/pioneerspacesim/pion ... ngelog.txt
If you have login on github you can download build artifact from actions tab from various merged pull requests - no compilation requred.
https://github.com/pioneerspacesim/pioneer/actions
Yes, save is compatible (so far). If not, you can hold Ctrl and click "load" (which will actually read: "restore" I believe) and a new game with same ship, reputation, kills, cash, equipment, name, position will be started, but active missions will not be carried over.
Also on the topic of thrusters, I would love to see manual throttle control implemented. The computer can incrementally adjust the throttle in cruise mode but I'm not aware of any way to to it manually (maybe with the speed limiter sort of, but not very effectively). I don't know how hard this would be to do, but it seems essential for the manual flight experience.
Sorry for such lengthy posts and multiple requests! I really wanted to share this idea because it seemed like a simple addition that could provide some quality of life improvement, sometimes when I play I get hand cramps from how much I have to hold down W and right click. Maybe what I really need is a joystick :) Thanks again for your time reading and all the hard work you put into the game.